The Truth About Vinyl - Vinyl vs. Digital


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    Sound: Graham Haerther (haerther.net/)
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    References:
    [1] www.businessinsider.com/technology-is-changing-the-way-americans-listen-to-music-2017-11
    [2] blog.echonest.com/post/62248127937/the-loudness-war-is-real-and-we-can-prove-it-with
    [3] thevinylfactory.com/news/record-vinyl-sales-usa-first-half-2018/
    [4] www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36027867
    [5]web.archive.org/web/20060706192816/www.loe.ee.upatras.gr/Comes/Notes/Nyquist.pdf
    [6]web.archive.org/web/20100208112344/www.stanford.edu/class/ee104/shannonpaper.pdf
    [7]www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/how.the.aes.began/aes_standard-playback-curve.pdf
    'Disc Playback Characteristics', Wireless World, April 1956, p. 171.
    [8]drewdaniels.com/audible.pdf
    [9]www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=7326
    [10]www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/25/pop-music-louder-less-acoustic
    [11]web.archive.org/web/20100825003547/mixonline.com/mag/audio_big_squeeze/

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    engineering  science  technology  education  history  real  vinyl  vs  digital  sampling rates  audio quality  storage  medium  which is better  record  streaming  music  songs  player  Is vinyl better?  

ReplayStation
ReplayStation

I think the resurgence of vinyl is about a combination of nostalgia and people wanting to collect and maintain physical media. It's the same reason people have been collecting retro video games. The digital-everything revolution is making people realize that they don't OWN the things they paid for, they're just licensing it and those albums or stores or services could be gone one day and unless you have a physical backup, yours is gone possibly forever.

Vor 7 Minuten
Mario Salimon
Mario Salimon

Very well crafted. Convincing. Congratulations. I like to listen to both digital and analog media, as well as digitized analogs. I have pendrives with copies of digitized old cassettes recorded from FM stations. Very wild, corrupted but emotionally charged sound!

Vor 37 Minuten
X of Center
X of Center

Lots of music sounds better on vinyl simply due to mastering dynamics, as the video references. There's no reason this couldn't also be done in digital masters, but it usually isn't. Especially in pop and EDM music, where the mastering tends to preserve the club-thump low end and squeezes out all the headroom. Lots of music also sounds better on cassette (or open reel), assuming decent quality gear (versus cheap consumer crap). Magnetic tape introduces a well-known gentle gel-compression effect which tends to be very pleasant for certain types of music. Again, this could be intentionally mastered for digital, but it often is not anymore because today's music tends to be more rhythmic than melodic, so transients are more important than gel.

Vor Stunde
Chris SweetLeaf
Chris SweetLeaf

4.30 The description is correct. The graphic is not... Shame on the graphics department!

Vor Stunde
Max Bosco
Max Bosco

Another amateur selling his own truth. Spare my life.

Vor 2 Stunden
Max Sebastien
Max Sebastien

Wait WHAT ??! There is a mistake at 4:30 !!! That's a counterweight not a magnet.

Vor 2 Stunden
Nathan Arnold
Nathan Arnold

10:03 There, saved you the time.

Vor 3 Stunden
Benny Jørgensen
Benny Jørgensen

I strongly support measurable results over "emotions" when it comes to science. However, we must remember that music is more about emotions than frequencies. Nobody that listenens to music think it's a nice sinus tone, but instead we relate emotions to what we hear. Having said that, a Japanese sound engineer has proved that even though the ear can only hear just under 20 KHz, it can detect differenes in musical instruments when harmonic tones over 20 KHz are cut away. Thus, the ear can hear higher tones than 20 KHz if followed by tones below 20 KHz. Thus, it is not enough to sample at 44.1 KHz, as only (nyquist) allows up to 22 KHz reproduction. Why I listenes to vinyl records? It gives a goog feeling searching through the records, take one out and put it on. A feeling I mis when streaming, which I also do a lot.

Vor 3 Stunden
XeverettX
XeverettX

Modern digital is so good that the human ear can't distinguish between the two. However analog seems to give a warmth that digital can't. One of my favorite engineers/producers records on to a digital program but runs the signal through a rack of analog equipment then takes that digital runs it to 2 inch tape which warms it up and gives it the analog qualities than runs that back on to the computer. Then uses that file as the final piece of work to mix and master. It's a really cool technique. That was the short explanation, and it is much more involved but you get the point. On top of all that a lot of the bands he records are very hard, chaotic, heavy stuff. From doom/sludge to hardcore to grind to metal yet it always comes out so clear sounding with distinguishable parts, tons of dynamics, tones galore, and plenty of loudness while maintaining clarity! The cool thing with most of the vinyl I buy that are new realeases come with a free download code so you are able to put it on the device of your choice. I was in a band and we only released on vinyl and SP and EP's on cassette but they always included a free download from ITunes inside the packaging. So there's my rant and feelings on it and all I can really say in conclusion is to each his own!!!!🎸⚡️🤘🏻🤘🏿🤘🏽🍻🎙💿📻🔊🔊🔊 Keep on ROCK'N daddio!!!

Vor 3 Stunden
Arkadi Danielyan
Arkadi Danielyan

Well this video sounds as absurd as flat earthers theories. So you bring hundreds of reason why cd and vinyl should sound the same and then in the end of the day we know that they dont sound the same. Steve jobs was saying that human eye cant see more then 326 dpi then people look at 450 dpi and say that he and his scientists were wrong. I understand that some people may like the cartoonish sound of cd, but you need to be an absolute retard to think that cd and vinyl sound the same. Now for the idiots that dont want to understand that for vinyl lover inaccuracies and pops and clicks does not matter i will bring an example, if you dont understand after that then you are just being a stubborn donkey. Have you watched a movie from 90’s on newer tvs that have feature where they can have 240 frames per second? And because there are not that many frames in the movie itself it starts doing each frame twice and creates this smooth soap opera effect, where the movie seems to be shot by an amateur camera. So this smoothness is nice when you watch a sport game but for the movie it ruins it. Though your eye is not capable of catching that many frames but it somehow does. It is not human ear that can’t hear after some frequency. It is human brain that can’t acknowledge the information-that he heard. I can bet wit everybody that rven if i don’t pass a cd vinyl blind test after one week i will tell you for hundred percent which one was the cd which one the vinyl. After switching to cd music is still pleasant but it is irritating in a long run. Vinyl is more forgiving.

Vor 3 Stunden
djmaciiii
djmaciiii

I play vinyl because I am nostalgic about it. It also sounds a little warmer to me. Another benefit about vinyl is I am more likely to listen to the whole album vs just a single track. I feel the same was about mechanical watches. A quarts or digital is more accurate for sure, but a mechanical watch just has a soul.

Vor 3 Stunden
johanson61
johanson61

Why is it shown that the sound head is in the counterweight of the arm? This is totally wrong.

Vor 3 Stunden
EJP
EJP

Leaving aside all the ludicrous technical errors, the fundamental claim that analogue and digital are 'functionally equivalent' is meaningless without specifying the analogue and digital parameters. When the CD first went into development in the 1970s, they looked at the competition: phono and cassette; and concluded they only needed a 72dB dynamic range, so only 12 bits. They were very surprised indeed to find that the result when passing audio through a 12-bit ADC-DAC chain sounded like shit, and the result was never marketed. They added another four bits, which is an enormous factor in the digital domain: 16 times the resolution, or more than 20dB in the old currency.

Vor 3 Stunden
Andy Me
Andy Me

Your impression of how digital audio sampling works is flawed. While it may use a set sampling rate, such as 44.1k, those are samples that a computer would then compute such a sine curve that would represent such a set of samples. While in storage, it will be represented as such stairsteps, it's more accurate to look at it as points that would be connected using a curve. Here's a real audio engineer's take on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

Vor 4 Stunden
RnRanimal
RnRanimal

sorry, you are wrong

Vor 4 Stunden
Jadin Andrews
Jadin Andrews

I do like vinyl, but to be honest so much has to be perfect for you to get a good sound, that it's just not worth the effort. If you just buy a decent DAC, your sound will sound the same no matter how many times you listen to your music, whereas, you need to regularly maintain your record player, replace the stylus every now and then, keep dust off your LP's, and don't play them too often or you may wear them down etc. How can a medium be better if it deteriorates over time?

Vor 4 Stunden
puppykicker
puppykicker

What is missed here is that CDs are limited to 0db, and mp3s are limited to -3db. The db scale is logrithmic, so 3db is twice as much power. In comparison, cassettes could easily handle +3db, and high quality ones could reach +6db. This lessening in volume in digital media has led to increased use of compression, wich has greatly lessend the dynamics of music. Want proof? Listen to a good condition vinyl copy of Iron Maiden and then listen to a CD 'from the original master' of the same album on the same sound system with all the settings the same. Betcha had to reach for the volume knob to turn it up, didn't ya? Another irritating thing about digital music is that every song from a different album is at a different level, constantly making me turn the volume up or down.

Vor 4 Stunden
KUNAIUCHICHA
KUNAIUCHICHA

You know that human ear is not a computer and as much as you wanna believe it the brain is not either. It's a vast oversimplification that 'humans can't hear that and that'. I assure that humans are capable of tremendous things and there is a huge difference between a 'whole' sound with all of its details and the 'pixelated' one. Of course I believe most people wouldn't hear a difference most of the time. Or wouldnt be aware of it. Similar thing happens with analog and digital photography. Colours aren't quite the same. The devil is in the details. Human brain recognizes patterns. This is it's job basically. So it really hears a pattern of steady clocking steps in a staircase of sound and it's not pleasant in comparison to a smooth valley of the real. Even if you think you can't hear it it has it's influence on you. If you show me that colourful bass on a digital I might reconsider.

Vor 4 Stunden
Pixie Panda Plush
Pixie Panda Plush

(10:20) So your video says that digital is superior because it can hold sounds that are impossible for the vinyl to have; and high frequency sounds too. Just make sure the digital file is above 44kHz, and closer to 192kHz.

Vor 4 Stunden
G. Hughey
G. Hughey

Sounwaves are in themselves analog... digital is just a way to synthesize the analog sound. Reel to Reel tapes were far superior to the quality and quanity of information to what a vinal record could record. If you want to hear the true difference between superior analog and digital find a reel to reel tape system - (not to be ever be confused with the much lesser quality cassette tapes.)

Vor 4 Stunden
STELLAFELLA
STELLAFELLA

Was going well untill you mentioned space.... "space isn't real"

Vor 4 Stunden
Pixie Panda Plush
Pixie Panda Plush

There's one benefit with digital and CD's over vinyl. – If the vinyl has the hole just a little bit off center, it will start to wobble, which causes the audio to constantly increase and decrease in speed. Just the tiniest off center will create this effect; probably not noticeable when so small, but when speaking of pure lossless information, that is a loss. – Digital CD's follows the track just like a vinyl, and can also wobble. However, it reads the data into a buffer, which converts it from CD-data to audio-data, and thanks to this buffer, any amount of wobble will be cancelled out as it outputs the data from the buffer at a constant rate. Digital files could also "wobble" I guess; if the harddrive is unstable, or when streaming online, the data is "wobbling" as it comes in packages. But here again, a buffer is used to balance out the audio. A vinyl record does not have a buffer, so it will wobble.

Vor 4 Stunden
HEAVY SYSTEMS, Inc.
HEAVY SYSTEMS, Inc.

The problem with digital audio is the same with computer animation: the limitations which force a focus on what is important in the product limits the quality of the end product. People believe removing limitations creates a better product, but the reality is that necessity breeds invention. When applied to creativity, the limits of possibilities produces new alternatives to what is normal. When there's no limits, then 'sounding like the other guy' becomes the goal. The loudness wars were a function of commercialism of limitless audio production. In the vinyl era, creativity of the music itself within the constraints of recording became the driving force for innovation. That's not to say digital music era has produced nothing but bad results, but the trends are very different and vinyl trends are arguably more geared toward musical innovations rather than technical ones and that's very important as a distinction. Albums that end up on vinyl have to go through the process of being able to reproduce themselves on vinyl...if vinyl is the goal at the start, it's quite certain that musical creativity is likely to be part of the process whereas production fetishism is likely to be part of the process if digital is the desired end production format. In other words...your ice cream comes in two flavors...one flavor isn't better than the other. But they are definitely different.

Vor 4 Stunden
coin777
coin777

Vinyl sound better Tho

Vor 5 Stunden
Mike Cronis
Mike Cronis

CD quality is 1440kbps. MP3 quality and streaming is 320kbps. It's quite a notable difference, even for non-audiophiles. Vinyl has been finally approved to be around 1200kbps but it's comparing apples to oranges here. Super high quality turn-tables and vinyl recording techniques can be around 1600kbps. DVD-A is 9600kbps and is incredible quality. Try one.

Vor 5 Stunden
Graham R
Graham R

This is exceptionally simplistic in its explanation.

Vor 5 Stunden
BroadcastTechReview
BroadcastTechReview

A lot in this video is wrong. 4:22 is an example... Data storage on a record due to its linear nature would be more like simple terabytes. Record that's been recorded from analog to analog unlimited samples. On pair of good speakers that you can actually hear the difference between the CD and the record. I'm not talking about a pair of JBL or KRKs...

Vor 5 Stunden
Pseudo Soul
Pseudo Soul

It has been said that the human eye can't see over 60hz. It wasn't until I purchased a 144hz monitor that I found otherwise. Similarly we discuss the limitations of the ear and our brains ability to interpret over 20khz. When discussing human senses, I feel science is incapable of properly measuring our ability. Sure using science we can measure all sorts man made devices however, we are not man made. It goes without saying that digital is much more convenient, but I prefer vinyl hands down. Thanks for the video!

Vor 6 Stunden
Taffer9876
Taffer9876

Vinyl is better.

Vor 6 Stunden
Nic Lastname
Nic Lastname

I don't understand why vinyl people aren't happy with their preferences and opinions being preferences and opinions? Why do they get so upset that their opinions universal, objective fact. There's nothing wrong with liking something more even though it's not superior and/or is inferior in some way. Nostalgia and subjective feelings are perfectly fine reasons to prefer vinyl. It doesn't have to also be objectively better to justify it. Especially since it has been shown time and time again that it is not better, and has some significant disadvantages. I still much prefer to own physical books, but I still understand and am perfectly willing to admit that physical books have no actual advantages and several disadvantages over digital books. I also don't get upset whatsoever when someone correctly states that digital books are superior. I'm well aware of the fact that my preference for books is pretty much entirely subjective, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Vor 7 Stunden
Ken K
Ken K

Cds before the loudness wars is superior in every way to vinyl. Vinyl sucks.

Vor 7 Stunden
Luke Utterback
Luke Utterback

As a vinyl record collector, I want give my take. First, I agree that digital is the superior method for audio storage, but there is more to records that just their ability to store music. I feel records are simply a more interactive experience than streaming. As someone who uses both, I use records, not because I think they are superior, but because I enjoy the experience. I enjoy collecting and showing off my favorite albums, I enjoy using it as an expression of my passion for music, and I think it's a great way to support my favorite bands.

Vor 7 Stunden
Cam Alft
Cam Alft

gold voyager record floating out in space....hahahahahahahaaa,suckers!

Vor 7 Stunden
fatcatbuzz
fatcatbuzz

I've been living abroad in Asia for the last 10 years, but when I'm back in the USA, I listen to 90% of the music I listen to on vinyl. In Asia, I listen to all my in MP3. Fortunately, I was back in the USA for the last few months and put 100 records in WAV and also to MP3. I still love the sound of vinyl even with all its limitations. Digital music, in theory, should sound better and I actually like CDs and kept all my CDs. For me, vinyl is my favorite medium. I also still kept all my cassette and analog equipment, including my Type II and IV tapes as well as my reel to reel.

Vor 8 Stunden
David Wickliffe
David Wickliffe

I feel like you missed a very important aspect of this debate. Not all digital formats are created equal. Modern digital media(such as that distributed via streaming, of saved on mps players), is often in a 'lossy' format(such as mp3). This not only can limit the frequency range that is saved, but also the change in amplitude. This doesn't even to go into the differences in encoder algorithm within a given digital file format, which have been shown to drastically effect the final audio playback quality. Ryan Maguire's "moDernisT" was completely created from the audio that was lost during the MP3 compression of "Tom's Diner"(the song used to formulate the MP3 standard). It's far from silent, which gives a fairly objective view of just how much audio one has lost when listening to the most abundant modern digital format.

Vor 8 Stunden
FUKY FILM
FUKY FILM

3:10 "The first vinyl record was pressed in 1948 …" - Well, you are totally wrong. First vinyl record was created in 1887 and after then they started to replace phonograph cylinders… Please until you say something do some research, thank you.

Vor 8 Stunden
jerry vaughn
jerry vaughn

vinyl is better .  I believe...   this is a scam.   he wants your money …. don't forget trump university

Vor 8 Stunden
Claude Saunders
Claude Saunders

You might want to learn how a turntable cartridge works before making an educational video about it.

Vor 8 Stunden
Winking Walrus
Winking Walrus

You say that vinyl has a nostalgia factor and that this is the reason, but it's mostly younger people buying vinyl. Most of whom weren't even born yet to grow up in a world where vinyl was the norm.

Vor 8 Stunden
Kushagra Vashisht
Kushagra Vashisht

Fuck is he on about.

Vor 8 Stunden
Baerchenization
Baerchenization

I just got dumber listening to this... "vinyl is incredibly durable", aha... I know for a fact that you never owned a single vinyl. It is not incredibly durable; depending on how you store it, it warps, sometimes as much as centimetres. Oh shit, it also does that if you happen to leave it exposed to heat, e.g. in the sun. It scratches, it shatters, it sounds like shit when dirty etc etc. None of which applies to a CD. And even 30 years ago, you had to spend 3000 bucks to get the same quality as a 300 bucks CD player could deliver. If you have 1000 bucks to spend today and care about sound quality, you are really stupid if you carry a turntable back home for the money. Not hating on vinyl, I have a baby LINN and collect certain vinyl like picture or 10" editions etc, but you gotta be real, CD beats the pants of vinyl, if only for the fact that not everybody can or wants to afford 10x more money for a decent turntable. Everybody who owns vinyl owns scratched and warped vinyl.... incredibly durable? Oh dear... and btw, you afforded the time to get all the factoids regarding the Voyager record, got Voyager footage etc but did not figure that OF COURSE it is NOT a vinyl record! This should be immediately obvious to anybody and you could confirm this suspicion in 5 seconds; you were already at the right Wiki page anyway...

Vor 9 Stunden
Greg Mark
Greg Mark

CD Quality (16 bits, 44.1khz) does NOT capture as much sound as an analog record, and neither come close to capturing live sound. Although the human ear can only hear frequencies up to around 20khz, it can hear TRANSIENTS (fast changes in sound level) at MUCH higher frequencies. And, as it turns out, these "vhf" transients are the primary component of sound used by the brain to create an image of the heard sound field (think of living in the jungle, where identifying the direction of a twig snapping can be the difference between life and death). This is why HD audio IS superior to both CD and vinyl -- at 192khz of 32 bit data, the entire range of transients can be captured.

Vor 9 Stunden
boonexy
boonexy

you are completely omitting the argument of compression formats in digital. People can hear the difference between an mp3 and a record.

Vor 9 Stunden
Terry Harvey
Terry Harvey

What about shellac? Vinyl has only been around for 70 years.

Vor 9 Stunden
Ronny Lucas
Ronny Lucas

Very inaccurate for a engineering channel...

Vor 9 Stunden
Jr new
Jr new

Edison was a professional trickster.

Vor 10 Stunden
trijezdci
trijezdci

And no mentioning of the real issue why vinyl horribly sucks: scratching and dust noises. Nothing worse than having all this crackling in your audio.

Vor 10 Stunden
neoasura
neoasura

Eh, Vinyl was great when it was from true analog sources, and when CD/MP3 audio was still low bitrate..But nowadays, digital has improved so much, and most Vinyl is printed from digital sources. If you want to collect Vinyl for aesthetics and the sleeve artwork...fine, or if you are some DJ that scratches it, but don't claim it sounds better, you'll just sound like a hipster idiot.

Vor 10 Stunden
Dreaming Music
Dreaming Music

"So what you're saying is...." that since YOU can't hear a difference then there is no difference and that those people who claim to hear a difference are really lying because YOU can't hear anything. Riggghhtt.

Vor 10 Stunden
rdvqc
rdvqc

I was an audio nut in my youth and spent no end of $$ on equipment and recordings. As I got older I moved to digital as much for the convenience of handling as for the sound quality. CD sound did not deteriorate like vinyl and styluses. It was also much more portable. I now carry a 10,000 song playlist in my pocket which travels all over the country with us though I still have 50% of my old vinyl to capture (a painful process), The other point is that I have equipment limitations - my ears are not even close to what the used to be in my 20's (I a,m 68 now). I grin each time I see folks spending extra $$ so they can have their music is a less durable, awkward format that requires expensive playback equipment and massive manual intervention. Been there ... done that ... don't miss it a bit.

Vor 10 Stunden
UberPilot
UberPilot

WOW. Blew it at 4:33. An analog record is at least 192k in a 12 inch at 45. They did one from a 192k and it's the worst one made.

Vor 10 Stunden
Thomas Hall
Thomas Hall

I'm still amused by the memory of Neil Young's Pono bullshit

Vor 10 Stunden
Mario Rodriguez
Mario Rodriguez

Hmm, i’ll have to disagree with your opinion that “Vinyl” & “Digital” are the same in “Quality”. However i have to say that a Home stereo & Home Speakers have a larger output in power than a car stereo would have. “Vinyl Records” sound “Live Music” to me. where as CD’s can sound flat or not as rich. You can also argue to install an “Amplifier”? But that can only do so much to the Original music & how it was meant to be played.

Vor 10 Stunden
robert t
robert t

what you hear is limited to your speakers. tube amps and a good quality phono blows digital away. For me at least. sonar sub boomer here. to my ear it is clearly better.

Vor 10 Stunden
chiangui24
chiangui24

I don't think you should be using vinyl as the analog standard to compare to digital. You should discuss reel to reel tape since the quality is far superior, and it is what is normally used to transfer older recordings to digital.

Vor 10 Stunden
Alejandro Lobos Kunstmann
Alejandro Lobos Kunstmann

Everything is wrong. Bad research. The real reason people like Vinyl more is because of its own technical shortcomings. It goes beyond the medium itself. Did you interview a lathe operator? No. Special considerations have to be taken to cut a record in terms of EQ and compression which turn out to sound better to the human ear (perception, not sheer quality). Cutting a record with an mp3 or even a 24b/96KHz file to lathe doesn't cut it either (I have couple of those and they suck). Music specifically recorded in analog media has many pleasant attributes not found in recorded-for-mp3 music like all crap pop music currently recorded. For the best effect, the record has to be cut from open reel tape, which in turn was bounced from 1 or 2 inch tape. The best analogy is I.e. a painting compared to a photograph taken at the same time. The quality of a great photograph just can't compete with a great painting.. Try again by visiting an analog domain recording studio and a record cutter, like "Welcome to 1979" studios in Nashville, TN. You'll come to very different conclusions. Music is not about faithfully representing anything, it's about how pleasant it sounds. At least to the trained ear.

Vor 10 Stunden
Jack Allen
Jack Allen

I will throw in my 2 cents worth here for the hell of it, lol. For me I listen to vinyl when I am maybe feeling a bit nostalgic for the music of my youth in exactly the way I remember it. It's more about ritual of getting an album out and lovingly placing it on the turntable and dropping the tone arm down on the record. Of course that faint crackle between songs just adds to the feeling of 1979...just my thoughts. .Edited to add....I almost forgot to say I also listen it on a tube amp with Bose speakers!! OH THE HORROR!!! lol

Vor 11 Stunden
Mick Psyphon
Mick Psyphon

More often than not, digital format recordings are harsher; and vinyl is Warner.

Vor 11 Stunden
Ken Harris
Ken Harris

The video finally mentions a key factor: Compression. Analagous to a digital picture. Size, resolution and compression all matter.LPs give a 'warmer' sound in my experience. Whether from the recording or sub par D to A converters, a wholeness/warmth is typically lost. That said, I have had some CDs which were mastered to the end, which have emulated Vinyl. BTW - I wish CDs were longer than 80 minutes. I have some old 90 minute cassette mixes, I would have loved to convert without cutting them off....

Vor 11 Stunden
John Fiebke
John Fiebke

I have one of the world's finest CD players, a studio reference quality DAC, and a top flight analog setup. I like them both and guess what? So can you. This tribal this vs that crap is pointless. Both digital and analog can sound truly excellent and both are capable of extremely high fidelity. To say otherwise is to have too little experience in one of the other. Beyond that, Its just a stereo, enjoy it however the hell you want to.

Vor 11 Stunden
J L
J L

Excellent

Vor 11 Stunden
April Mae
April Mae

Vinyl Sucks.

Vor 11 Stunden
Roy Cspary
Roy Cspary

all very good but wrong because the only place digital has real problem is the one area human hearing is most able to perceive. the time domain, that is why digital treble is so annoying. distortion doesn't matter until it hits 3%, but mistime a sample by a fraction of a millisecond and the brain pops up an error flag the folds of the outer ear serve to delay high frequency sounds by a fraction of a millisecond and this allows us to perceive the elevation of a sound source and is very noticable to anyone with good hearing, vinyl has many problems, but it is inherently accurate in the time domain. that is why it sounds better, digital measures better, vinyl sounds better

Vor 11 Stunden
FV Karch
FV Karch

Look, it's really simple: A photograph produced by a film camera has such a high DPI it is almost unmeasureable while any photo printed by a printer ALWAYS has a measurable DPI. You simply check your printer's specs. Digital streams are ON/OFF, analogue streams from extremely high digital recordings flow together. I had both OTA and Digital TV at home. Once I had a football game playing on two channels right next to each other, one analog OTA and the other digital and the digital feed was about 2 seconds slower (coming from the supplier). I constantly switched back and forth to compared them and the OTA made it seem like the players were in the room compared to the restricted digital bandwidth. The OTA, even though from a digital broadcast source just simply had MORE undercurrents than the pure, restricted digital did. It was honestly like watching a B/W movie and a color movie. There was just MORE! Note: I am a BIG B&W movie fan. B&W movies should NEVER be colorized! But color movies do have more data in them -- even when of lesser quality. But a director who knows he's working with B&W can simply do AMAZING things with shadows and such that a color film cannot, even though the color movie has more data. Vinyls just simply have more flow, more undercurrent, more texture to them. And any digital meter you use to measure such differences will be flawed by it's very nature. It's hard to measure the spaces between sounds when there are no spaces but your meter has to pause for them. :-)

Vor 12 Stunden
marinaru68
marinaru68

Excellent presentation, clear, technically documented and comprehensive - thank you Real Engineering! Now, I have to confess that I love vinyl, as well cassettes and tapes, but this is only as a nostalgia and my love for analog technology. However, I always said that digital is far superior to analog. This is the future, no matter how many analog fans will say that analog is better. It is not - and I am an analog technology fan! As a comment to those who say that digital is not continuous signal, I have to remind them that the speakers membrane will always have a continuous move, so 44.100 samples a second played through speakers (not mentioning anymore the speaker's membrane inertia), will result in a perfect sinusoidal air wave! So spare me with this stupidity that digital have no continuous wave! P.S. unfortunately, is very possible that in future, digital intelligence to suppress "analog" intelligence (meaning... humans!). Behave to your robots, someday they will lead you!!! :)

Vor 12 Stunden
Core Puncher
Core Puncher

Well, I still love my bright blue Fischer Price “Humpty Dumpty” record.

Vor 12 Stunden
rideswithscissors
rideswithscissors

Unless you are sitting still in a quiet room listening it doesn't matter. Driving in your car, walking in the city, sitting in the apartment with the A/C on, there is no quality to the music. If you are an audiophile and you are using headphones or have a super stereo and have your speakers properly placed and everything EQed right, you will not be able to tell what format you have. But if it is vinyl you will have to get up out of the chair to change the record frequently, and you get more exercise!

Vor 13 Stunden
Taco Conch
Taco Conch

When I put on a fedora, use suspenders instead of a belt and grow a curly mustache, I can instantly tell vinyl is superior.

Vor 13 Stunden
technoway
technoway

There is one significant difference. For vinyl, the noise floor is only about 65 deciBels below the music level. For digital audio, the noise floor is about 90 deciBels down. For records, this noise floor is usually called record hiss. When CD music came out, people used to records often turned the volume up until they heard amplifier noise because they were used to record hiss, and when the CD started playing, they were startled by the extremely loud music from the CD.

Vor 13 Stunden
Karl Moore
Karl Moore

Jack White and Billy Corgan think vinyl sounds better, I'll trust their judgement. A smooth waveform is going to sound better than a digital replica that isn't even perfectly smooth.

Vor 13 Stunden
Jamie Anderson
Jamie Anderson

Nonsense. You can't hear a digital waveform, it's just silent data. An analog waveform based on a digital file is as smooth as one made from analog signals.

Vor 12 Stunden
1212r12
1212r12

Now for Tubes vs Transistors!

Vor 13 Stunden
Stephen Jones
Stephen Jones

I assume that part of vinyl's attraction among younger people (who don’t have any nostalgic connection to albums) is simply the tactile quality involved, the possession of something you can hold and own. Better quality or not, there’s something to be said about cramming your music into a hard drive (local or cloud) that also contains your Word and Excel documents. And that’s assuming ownership even exists, with streaming now the preferred medium among the many, and that’s fine! Never mind albums, even CDs take up lots of space. But there will always be a group of humans who want to hold a book, look at a photographic print, or place a vinyl platter on a turntable. The group will be a minority, but this doesn’t render their preferences irrelevant. Plus, let’s not overlook the appeal of album cover art. As a high school and college student from the the late-70s to mid-80s, I loved just the experience of going to record stores; sometimes buying albums just based on their covers or maybe some liner notes. The process of flipping through albums to see if a rare import with an alternative cover might pop up; the thrill of the hunt (yes, I now love the thrill of easy access via the Internet too). When I bought my first CD player in 1985, I was excited about the technology (I never have and never will romanticize the pops and clicks of vinyl), but I also bemoaned the reduced visual component of the album art. This said, at least with CDs, there was (and still is) something more than just a jpeg photo necessitating a computational device to view. As for the sound thing, affordable CDs players were initially shrill, or at least brighter, during their initial years, and I don’t think CDs ever managed to completely shrug off this stigma. However, everything from better engineering to DACs brought some palpable improvements in just a few years; my 1990 Rotel CD player competed well enough with my Linn turntable. If music sounds atrocious today, that goes back to the issue of brick walling, not digital or analog. But again, my larger point is that sound quality (perceived or real) is likely just one factor that has spurred vinyl’s resilience, with intangible elements that are purely subjective (and admittedly niche) contributing to this resilience as well. And reducing all of this down to some hipster fad is myopic at best. In any case, there’s nothing wrong with choice.

Vor 13 Stunden
Eric Brooking
Eric Brooking

One last, last thing. Vinyl records loss fidelity after each playing, they simply wear out. And in 1977 for the voyager mission they didn’t use a vinyl record because it would last longer, it was used because it was simple and they didn’t invent cds until 1982.

Vor 13 Stunden
Eric Brooking
Eric Brooking

Lastly, digital recording has less compression not more. Digital has more dynamic range therefore has more range from soft to loud therefore less compression not more. Now if you buy a highly compressed song that’s the engineers fault not the fault of digital audio. This is why highly compressed formats for vinyl are used like Dolby or Dbx.

Vor 13 Stunden
Eric Brooking
Eric Brooking

Here (at about 10:30) he says that vinyl and digital are equal in accuracy, not true. Vinyl is nonlinear below 50Hz and above about 5KHz, and the dynamic range is very limited. Digital is far superior which is why it is used for scientific and military research, it is far, far more accurate. But a guy who listens to hiss and pops and doesn’t even notice them is filling in the lost information with a non scientific imagination. It’s the same thing as people who love vacuum tube amps, which are nonlinear as heck when pushed hard. The old amps tend to exaggerate low and high frequencies which give a more pleasant but distorted response.

Vor 13 Stunden
qsxdr7
qsxdr7

I have many of the same albums on CD and Vinyl. The vinyl wins every time, the only question is by how much. I have over 500 albums in the two formats, that I listen to on a £3,000 system. So I'm speaking from real experience.

Vor 13 Stunden
qsxdr7
qsxdr7

Monitor Audio Silver RX6 Floor standing speakers. The CDs are played on a Arcam Alpha 7se CD Player.

Vor 4 Stunden
Jamie Anderson
Jamie Anderson

What loudspeakers and what DAC do you use? The price of your system doesn't tell us a lot about its quality.

Vor 12 Stunden
Carlos Garcia
Carlos Garcia

I've worked in music studios for the past 25 years and I can say this about vinyl and digital. Both have pro's and cons. Vinyl has a "warm" sound. People in the industry call this "analog warmth" which gives it a smooth sounding playback. Basically, because of it's inherent technical limitations, it's limited to how true it can reproduce or play back all the frequencies of any instrument or vocal. It's very forgiving sonically. Digital does not have this technical limitation. In fact, digital can reproduce all the frequencies to an extreme degree. Making playback sound as if the musicians were standing next to you. But, therein lies the problem, for it is in no way forgiving to poor recording procedures and poor musicianship or mediocre vocal performances. You will hear every minimal mistake to a very high degree. Whereas, in vinyl you could hear it but because of it's "analog warmth", it is glossed over and it doesn't stand out as much. That's the main difference between the two. The con's are that they both warp and scratch. So, the only difference is what would you prefer sonically? I grew up on vinyl but, to this day, I don't own a single vinyl record. Even as a child, I hated listening to the scratches, pops and hiss over a great song knowing that the musicians and the engineers never intended to have those artifacts over their creation but couldn't do anything about it because of the inherent problems that are associated with vinyl, which turned me off to this musical medium. And, as a teenager when I bought my first CD (Sade: Diamond Life) it blew me away because, I always imagined that music could sound so beautifully if we could only reproduce it the correct way. On that CD, you could hear the entire band surround you as if you were standing in the middle of them jamming. Personally, I prefer the clean and accurate sonic reproduction of digital. Hate me all you want but, that's what I prefer.

Vor 13 Stunden
Eric Brooking
Eric Brooking

Digital audio is not jagged, this is not the case. Over sampled digital audio passed through the final filter stage which is low order, is smooth as can be and if compared to the original analog audio is more accurate than vinyl. It’s very interesting to note that audiophiles who love listening to vinyl often don’t hear all the hiss and popping, this is because they selectively hear only what they want to hear and they fill in what they hear with their minds.

Vor 13 Stunden
EJP
EJP

The final filter stage is 9th order. This is not 'low'. And isn't the whole point to hear what you want to hear?

Vor 4 Stunden
Chris L
Chris L

This isn't an area open for debate. Digital is better and it's not even remotely close. Misguided fools think that vinyl is better, but 48mhz 16bit digital audio is a thing and even standard CD digital is far better than what typical people can discern.

Vor 13 Stunden
EJP
EJP

Chris L 48MHz? Don't kid yourself.

Vor 4 Stunden
anna ruyer
anna ruyer

Vinyl is going to life after time, every crack pitch is going intermix with the music.

Vor 13 Stunden
DrTomoculus
DrTomoculus

I disagree. I didn't even watch the video. I just diagree with whatever it said ;) But seriously, Vinyl is the way to go. Vinyl is like a mirror, CD is like a photograph. If you want to hear how well recorded something was, or how well mastered something was, go Vinyl. It will tell you every time. The people that mastered albums to Vinyl knew the limitations of the media. They knew the closer that needle gets to the deadwax/centre, the more centrifugal force will lose fidelity in playback. The great audio engineers of the 1940's through the 1990's knew these things. Those working in the digital age needed not to worry about such things. And that's where the ART of audio engineering started to go downhill. Because audio engineering/recording & mastering were art forms unto themselves in the decades preceding the CD age. It's not being nostalgic for the good old days. It's that the people who worked in the industry knew what tools they had, and what they couldn't make work, they found other ways to do things. Often improving the studio itself and the methods of recording music for all, by one small innovation. 45 RPM brings you into another realm of fidelity that I have never heard a single CD match. Not one. CDs have certain advantages, especially in the upper range frequencies, tending to "smooth" them out, or compress them in such a way that those in the bandwidths of hi mid to trebles don't overwhelm the overall mix. But where they suffer is in the lower bandwidths. CDs "compress" the lower tones into kind of a "representative" bass tone. There's nothing distinguising the frequency a bass drum emits, from the same frequencies a bass guitar or keyboard might emit, especially in R&B, Jazz or those musicians who tune their drumkits very low, or those who play bass guitar with their "highs" turned down to produce a more thicker tone without presence. CDs, in their process of interpreting the data that's being written to them, take these lower tones and kind of "cone" them. Putting them somewhat all together into something that says "these are the bass frequencies." Whereas Vinyl in 33 1/3 and 45 RPM separates these frequencies where they stood originally, or how they were recorded. To the best of its ability to do so. The lower frequencies are far more comfortable in the Vinyl world, and there are albums that you hear on CD that you think will be thumping in the "bass department" but when you get them to the Vinyl world, you'll find they were engineered/recorded with no distinctive tones to give them punch, clarity or drive. They are just mud. (Daft Punk comes to mind. On CD they're good. But on Vinyl LP, yikes. They are not good sounding records.) Sometimes it can depend on the artist. Artists like Electric Light Orchestra or Queen are served better in the CD world. Because both of these acts went very heavy on the multitracking, when it came down to mastering their end product for Vinyl, Vinyl would catch all the inconsistencies (and the overdubs) a little bit too well. Plus the sheer amount of multitracking makes the end result slightly "thin" because of the amount of overdubs amd mixdowns to make room for new content. So ELO and Queen on Vinyl can sound maxed out, stretched to the limit, weak in certain areas. On CD, as it discards certain information, smoothes out those somewhat harsh realities of multitracking many times. That's those two artists. And dependent on their recording engineer (at one point they shared the same one). At the end of the day, the media used is only going to catch how well something was recorded. And in the decades before the CD, there were audio engineers/mixers who were so good at their craft, that they were as important as the artists themselves. Naming these high quality recording engineers is easy, they were (and if still working are) the best sound recording engineers you will ever find. They include: Hugh Padgham Ken Scott Bruce Swedien Bill Price Eric Stewart (of 10cc) Richard Dashut Bruce Botnick Glyn Johns These are just the ones who operated in the "rock 'n' roll" years. Go to Fred Plaut if you want a recording engineer who was doing amazing things back in the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's. Or go to any Earth Wind and Fire album for kicks. In the world of the CD, the art of sound recording and engineering took a plummet. It didn't require you to account for centrifugal force. Or Track 5 having possibly less fidelity than tracks 1-4. Or for Side 2 to be lower or higher in volume. One of the best sounding records you can find out there is Harry Nilsson's "Son of Schmilsson" , but it's also one of the thinnest, floppiest Vinyl LP's I've ever held. You wouldn't think something that thin could produce the sounds it does. But it does. And that's because of RCA's manufacturing methods, and the audio recording engineers involved in making Son Of Schmilsson. Engineers : Ken Scott, Robin Geoffrey Cable, Phil McDonald --- Phil McDonald was a Beatle engineer who George Harrison took with him when Apple collapsed, along with Ken Scott. McDonald is one of the best that came out of Apple, but this should be apparent, because no other ex-Beatle demanded the services of Geoff Emerick other than Paul McCartney. And the difference between Ken Scott & Phil McDonald, to Emerick, will tell you why only one ex-Beatle would employ Emerick. And any other artist who employed Emerick would end up remixing his work (see Cheap Trick, Supertramp, Jeff Beck etc). This has nothing to do with how well CD or LP captures recorded sound, but no matter how good either media captures this or that, if that thing was recorded like shit in the first place, no media is going to help it out. It's just Vinyl LP will TELL you how well it was recorded. CD will hide it, and flatten out its quality. It gives a very 2D representation of the sound recording, as said, like a photograph of something. While what's outside the frame of that picture remains unknown or in this case, unheard. Vinyl LP works like a mirror. What's there is there, and if it wasn't recorded well, LP will tell you so. But if it was recorded by one of those engineers listed above? You will forget any CD version you ever heard of that sound recording. Below is a "remastering" of SPEED DEMON, by Michael Jackson, as recorded by audio engineer Bruce Swedien. It is taken from the Vinyl LP version of BAD. I augment and enhance these recordings without using any compressors, limiters, noise gates, filters or anything of that ilk. BAD is one of the greatest sounding recordings, and best sounding Vinyl LPs you will ever hear. Ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyPAeBr0Ej8 Rendered to 48,000 Hz, 24 Bit, Stereo, PCM WAV Audio for Video: 440 Kbps, 48,000 Hz, 24 Bit, Stereo, WMA Pro Video: 29.970 fps, 1440x1080 Progressive, 8.4 Mbps Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.333 TURNTABLE: Pro-Ject Audio Systems PHONO BOX: Pro-Ject mm/mc preamplifier TRANSFER METHOD: behringer UCA222 I've done so many of these "remasters" from CD, LP, VHS, Cassette, you name it, I've tried it. You cannot DO this with a CD. It doesn't understand much of what's being written to it. It knows what it gets, and discards the rest. It mushes lower frequencies into a "representative" tone, especially in the centre of the stereo image. And one thing CDs don't get, is "space." It understands the concept of it, it can numerically tell you what is defined in that space, but what you hear back is a representation, at best, of space. A better word is SIMULATION. LP understands space.

Vor 13 Stunden
DrTomoculus
DrTomoculus

And in defense of the argument about Snap, Crackle, Pop in the Vinyl LP, EP and Single world, I am just going to say this. I would rather hear the intermittent and occasional SCP in that world, rather than an album that was mastered to CD, where someone did NOT suppress the power equipment noise to produce that product. There are many albums where the perpetual, never disappearing, ongoing sound of WHITE NOISE is present in every song, in every quiet section, in ever gap in the music that makes listening to these products equivalent to Chinese Water Torture. When will this white noise stop. Well, when they master this product without it. Or when I take that CD out of its player, whichever comes first. White Noise. It's the enemy of many CDs, pushed out to a buying public convinced they were getting something "better" because it promised no snaps, crackles or pops. No, what you got was a media format that discarded a good portion of the content its SIMULATING, and also made the mastering engineer lazier and push out a product with less quality control. Cuz it was "better." ;) Plus the Loudness War, Brickwalling, and Over Compression. My god, when did snare drums start sounding like a woodpecker that's converted to Jehovah's Witness knocking on your door. Ping it goes. Plip it sounds. Condensed down into an instrument trapped inside a tunnel, fighting its way through a dense field of equally over-compressed instruments in a wall of information saying "this was recorded well." The art of audio engineering fell down a cliff when its workers were told "you don't have to worry about snaps crackles and pops anymore, go crazy!" And they did. But they got lazy as well. The craftsmanship went over a cliff, and everything became more, more, more. Less is more in the end. Vinyl LP and those who mastered to that media format knew this. This media is limited by MORE. So lets come up with ways to tell that media when we have demanded more from the studio, how to cope with what its asked to deal with. Lets innovate. Lets work with what we got. There has to be a way. This has been abandoned for brickwalling.

Vor 13 Stunden
TheSpiral01
TheSpiral01

Im a prior DJ and when i used Serato to port vinyl albums to my pc, the kbs were close to 1350kbs, which creates a flac file, mp3’s play at around 120kbs, when you turn the mp3 up it distorts, when you turn the flac file up, you hear the song clearer and more of it.

Vor 13 Stunden
Óscar Sánchez
Óscar Sánchez

but with vinyl, the venue of the recording is perceived, while with digital music is not always the case, where the stereo image get somewhat compressed. It may not have to do with the format, but the way it is converted from digital to analog, as not two different audio DACs use the same algorithm to recover data and reconstruct the audio signal, and it has little to do with the sampling rate or the bit depth. Dare I say most DACs I've heard tend to normalize the dynamic range and the sterero image, while giving also a perceived cleaner sound than that from vinyl record players

Vor 13 Stunden
Robinson Joe
Robinson Joe

TLDR, You can record a digital recording that is as good to the ear as an analog recording but all the recordings are compressed garbage so the analog recording is better. The recording industry chooses to sell you a garbage format with garbage sound because it's cheap.

Vor 14 Stunden
Reichensperger
Reichensperger

This discussion of the quality of music would be more effective without the constant drone of low-quality music in the background.

Vor 14 Stunden
pagansforbreakfast
pagansforbreakfast

I really enjoyed watching the record turn as I played them, it was comforting.

Vor 14 Stunden
Me my opinion Sche
Me my opinion Sche

The loudness wars! I bought a cassette from the band dangerous toys late 90's and put in my Walkman and oh God. Very hard to to listen to. Almost painful. And it wasn't the Walkman or the headphones. I always was a stickler on good quality headphones and playing devices. But man the singer sounded like he was using hard S's And sounded very tinny. Hard to explain. But couldn't figure it out why it was sounding like that. Until I read up about the loudness wars and had my Eureka moment. That was a horrible sounding time.

Vor 14 Stunden
jackthegamer
jackthegamer

the whole question is....just not worth it, i won't tell anyone why cause- fuck this shit, i WISH there was a way to hide THE COMMENT SCECTION

Vor 14 Stunden
robertm2000
robertm2000

I've worked with recorded sound for almost 60 years., going back to 78 RPM records and coming to digital recording at present. The best music is music that is played and heard LIVE!!!

Vor 14 Stunden
jackthegamer
jackthegamer

to me, the whole debate is just pointless, what's the point in analog and digital....if you never specifie what you want to do with it i do like digital on music as music is easy to transfer from disc to my samsung, no biggy BUT i don't buy on the idea that its better or worst cause its just a media with its own pro's and con's, let's also not forget that music is just an art that everyone has the right to listen the way they want, if you want to enforce a way of listening to music on others, you failed at understanding what it is to listen to music, its to enjoy listening to what a rythm, a story through the ears,

Vor 15 Stunden
Apfel
Apfel

It depends on tbe file type...

Vor 15 Stunden
zgrafsoftware
zgrafsoftware

Nice presentation.  Good background.

Vor 15 Stunden
Bledsoe Texas
Bledsoe Texas

If there's essentially no difference between vinyl and digital . . . fire up an o-scope and answer this . . . why does vinyl show a frequency response up to 30k, while all digital files tend to roll off at about 16k. Hummm.... "no difference"??? Check your reality.

Vor 15 Stunden
Matthew Mandula
Matthew Mandula

You sound like you're from the OSW review bro

Vor 15 Stunden
Lol Zor
Lol Zor

As many here have pointed out, the drawbacks with digital media today are mostly caused by pressures from the public and the culture of todays music production. Not necessarily the inherent limitations of the media itself..

Vor 15 Stunden
ULTRASMURF
ULTRASMURF

6:50 the reason vinyl is subjectively better is exactly because of it's limitations, music needs to be mastered specially for vinyl so all the data can fit on the record if it was subjected to the replay gain abuse of the loudness wars it simply wouldn't function, you'd need multi record albums and the needle wouldn't track well or would bounce out of the grooves if it were to be mastered like digital music often is now a days

Vor 15 Stunden
Robbie Crosbie
Robbie Crosbie

I've always preferred vinyl to CD. I've got 100s of lps and if you've a good system not one of these cheap plastic things they are knocking out now then the sound is just amazing. I've got lps from the 70s onwards and they sound just as clear as the day they were pressed

Vor 16 Stunden
OMGWTFLOL
OMGWTFLOL

As a boomer, I grew up with vinyl and still have all my records, but I transitioned to CD as soon as it became affordable/mainstream, and now I have most everything ripped to a Hi-Res, lossless FiiO portable player with a source out jack. Clicks, pops and scratches have no place in music reproduction. That's all eliminated with digital, and I'm quite happy with the product. I have a $20k audio system (Martin Logan & Krell) that reveals all, and although I still have a turntable, it never gets used. If you prefer vinyl, fill your boots.

Vor 16 Stunden
Generic Man
Generic Man

Aww, crap! My MP3 is scratched! This FLAC file is warped; I hope it'll still play! This new VinylMan is awesome! I can listen to my LPs while I'm out jogging with only minimal skipping every time my body shifts in any perceivable way.

Vor 16 Stunden
Phil Tindale
Phil Tindale

I was interested in watching your video as I've been in the hi-fi industry since 1978, the reason analogue vinyl sounds better on a good quality turntable than digital is purely because of no dither noise as used in digital recording, in other words you are getting some of the original artist the better the turntable system the more you get where as with digital it's all dither noise, I have to say though all these cheap record players on the market are a total waste of time you really need a minimum of a Rega turntable upwards. Thanks for the video.

Vor 16 Stunden

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